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Musing - Sally's Journal
November 23rd, 2005
10:11 am

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Musing
It may be a dangerous thing to only surround yourself with people who agree with you, or it may be a valid way of making yourself happy. My money's on the former, but I have often argued in the past that people would be happier if they lived with people who agreed with them, and let the people who didn't agree with them live with each other in peace. However, it is undoubtably a dangerous thing to surround yourself with people who daren't say they disagree with you.

Ruling by fear doesn't work in the long term. Ruling by mutual trust and love is a far better idea, which is why if you go around telling people "No, I don't trust you, because of $irrational-reason" you may find yourself loosing friends. Of course, if you're a parasitic life form who is quite happy to suck your current host dry and then move on to another this may not bother you.

And yes, I'm tired, and ill, and far more hurt by the stupid situation than I should be. But I trust my friends to have the honesty and goodness of spirit to tell me when I'm out of order.

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From:emperor
Date:November 23rd, 2005 10:36 am (UTC)
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I think you're out of order. Where are the socks pictures?!?!?!
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From:atreic
Date:November 23rd, 2005 10:37 am (UTC)
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Wah! You're not taking my angst seriously! Besides, arn't they on rapun where they always were?
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From:meirion
Date:November 23rd, 2005 10:40 am (UTC)
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would it not be sensible to let this drop now?
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From:atreic
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:01 am (UTC)
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I've tried to help you by being a friend to you, as it seems you no longer want that it seemed only fair to try to help you by being honest to you. I am strongly worried that you surround yourself by people who act as enablers, and as I see you cut yourself off further from people who won't behave as you want them to this can only get worse.

You probably won't believe that what I have to say is true or relavent, but I feel I've had enough of not saying what I believe to be true. I'm saying this now in the hope that it will make people reassess how they behave around you and do what they think is for your good, rather than just what they know will cause you not to defriend them / stop speaking to them / etc. I used to believe that it was better to bend my principles and bite my tongue in the hope that I could help more if you were listening to me, even if I wasn't saying what I wanted to, but all that leads to is no real hope and no principles.
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From:cartesiandaemon
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:03 am (UTC)
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This is why I read newspapers that make me growl.
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From:serenasnape
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:18 am (UTC)
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Everyone thinks I'm mad when I explain that's how my family do things ... glad somebody else agrees!
From:grumpyangel
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:07 am (UTC)
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I am happier when I am surrounded by people who will challenge me, and that I can trust to challenge me.

The problem is when someone with major issues is the person that does is, it can cause a lot of problems.

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From:gerald_duck
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:08 am (UTC)
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[ No idea about the specific circumstances surrounding this post, but… ]

I surround myself with people who agree that saying what they really think is a good idea, and that intelligent informed discussion with people of differing viewpoints is fun.

I'm not sure which of the two categories I fall under. (-8
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From:filecoreinuse
Date:November 23rd, 2005 01:29 pm (UTC)
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Probably the same as myself, you surround yourself with who so ever happens to be there and have highly correlated sets of people you are/wish to be friends with and people you respect[1].

[1] Meaning, in this case, that even if they don't agree with you, you expect them to have a compelling reason for themselves and could argue any point well.
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From:ashfae
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:13 am (UTC)
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For what it's worth, I don't think you've been out of order. From what little I know it sounds like a tough, tough situation, the sort where there is no "good" answer really. Many hugs to you and Matt. And to all the others involved.

Personally, I really hope my friends will tell me when I'm doing something wrong, so that it's brought to my attention. Even if I don't agree with them and end up ignoring their advice, at least it forces me to think about it, and at least I can be confident that we know where we stand with each other.
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From:serenasnape
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:19 am (UTC)
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I know it's hard when friends disagree and you love them all. I've been reading everything you've posted, but (obviously) don't have any easy answers.

Prayers and hugs.
From:nlj21
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:25 am (UTC)
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I always find that it is the people I agree with most are those I am most able to argue and disagree with. I think it is because those I agree with have a common starting point on which we can base our arguements which enables us to thrash out our disagreements in a meaningful way.
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From:olithered
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:32 am (UTC)
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I admire your honesty!

I'd also much rather have friends who disagreed with me now and again. It'd be so awfully dull if we all thought the same way.
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From:keirf
Date:November 23rd, 2005 02:31 pm (UTC)
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I'd also much rather have friends who disagreed with me now and again. It'd be so awfully dull if we all thought the same way.

You're wrong! If we all thought like I do it would be awfully interesting!
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From:l_ren
Date:November 23rd, 2005 11:46 am (UTC)
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Don't worry, I don't expect an invite to your wedding ;) I think you've handled this situation well and shouldn't be so hard on yourself. It's things like this that would make me tempted to not invite anyone at all...
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From:robert_jones
Date:November 23rd, 2005 12:16 pm (UTC)
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Ruling doesn't have much to do with friendship, does it? Surely the reason that saying, "No, I don't trust you, because of such and such irrational reason," is likely to lose you friends is that it destroys the atmosphere of trust necessary for friendship, since people are frequently disinclined to alter their behaviour when the objection to it is irrational?

In the light of your last sentence I will venture respectfully to add that I'm not sure the final sentence of the second paragraph adds much constructive to the discussion.
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From:chess
Date:November 23rd, 2005 01:58 pm (UTC)
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It may be a dangerous thing *and* a valid way of making yourself happy.
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From:the_lady_lily
Date:November 23rd, 2005 02:18 pm (UTC)
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I know this is causing a lot of difficulties, but equally? Sally, you've done the right thing. Speaking the truth is hard but you have to do it, even when your version of the truth may not be someone else's version of the truth.

On the subject, yes, I would expect my friends to tell me if I was screwing up too. That's part of the purpose of friends, to act as the external check and balance on actions we ourselves can't see clearly.
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From:griffen
Date:November 23rd, 2005 04:01 pm (UTC)
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I agree with what you've said here. I dislike being distrusted-by-proxy. I dislike it even more because I used to do that until I finally realized how completely unhelpful it was.

Hi, by the way. Saw you mentioned in other journals, read your public posts, and you seem like someone with their head screwed on correctly and levelly. *waves*
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From:atreic
Date:November 23rd, 2005 04:11 pm (UTC)
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Sorry to let you down, but my head is just as wonky as anyone elses on LJ. Luckilly I have it connected by elastic bands to a number of people with very good eyes for heads, so it tends to get pulled around until it appears to point in the right direction :-)
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From:ariel11
Date:November 24th, 2005 12:23 am (UTC)

Who's who?

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Incestuous indeed - I thought I was talking to Catriona! And it sounds as if you have indeed had a lovely evening! Sleep well!
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